Getting Stuck In Your Head
From time to time, many (if not most) improvisers find themselves stuck inside their head and thinking too much. How can we identify when it is happening, and how can we moderate any negative impact it might be having on our performance.
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This show features:
Shari Hazlett
Instagram: @ShariHazlett
Jessica Mitolo
Jessica's Second City profile
Jay Sukow
Today Improv
The Improv Chronicle Podcast is produced and hosted by Nottingham improviser Lloydie James Lloyd
Theme music - Sam Plummer
Logo design - Hélène Dollie
Episode transcript:
This… is the Improv Chronicle Podcast. I'm Lloydie.
Lloydie: From time to time, many (if not most) improvisers find themselves stuck inside their head and thinking too much. Given how much technique different improv schools drill into us and given how exposing being on stage can be, it maybe not the biggest surprise in the world that this happens. But how can we identify when it's happening and how can we moderate any negative impact it might be having on our performance?
Jessica Mitolo is Education Manager at The Nursery Theatre, UK and a faculty member of the Second City, Chicago, USA. She's been teaching, directing and coaching improv for over 18 years. And she thinks getting in your head when improvising is a pretty understandable phenomenon.
Jessica Mitolo: You learn so much of what to do and what not to do. Even from the best coaches who are telling you to follow your heart and follow your bliss, you still have this right-or-wrong, yes-or-no feeling. So, I feel like it's only natural to end up in your head.
I think anyone who watches movies and watches television, we watch a scene play out and we're constantly playing along at home to guess what can happen. So, when we're in the scene, playing along with the partner, it only makes sense that we would guess along with what should happen in that scene. And our goal as a performer, as an improviser, is to let go of what should happen and what could happen and what normally happens and actually respond to the person listening with us.
Jay Sukow: Oh, yeah. I mean, let's be honest, every improviser is in their head because as a human being, you're in your head. So, it's not something that just magically disappears.
Lloydie: Jay Sukow is from Chicago, USA and now lives in Los Angeles. He plays a number of sports (that I don't understand, but aspire to) and he's been doing improv for around 30 years and does a lot of work with businesses and individuals to help them to improve.
Jay: There are tools that we can use to help accept it and kind of get out of it and be as present as possible. When you're in your head, you're basically not as present as you can be. And so, you're thinking about (in improv terms) you're thinking about either what's coming up, something maybe you did that you regret, maybe somebody in the audience, maybe did you pay the meter for where you parked, what you had for dinner, what is this form? I don't understand; are we in the third beat or the second beat? Where are we? So, you're very confused and you're trying to think your way out of that scene.
Lloydie: So, we've been talking about getting out of your head like it's a term that, well, means something. And to some extent it does. Most improvisers I know use it, but how useful is it?
Shari Hazlett: Shari Hazlett: producer, writer and improviser. I'm based here in Brooklyn, New York.
Lloydie: How would you describe the phenomenon of getting in your head and what's it like?
Shari: I think it's a really broad – I don't want to call it a generic term, but I think it means a lot of different things. I think it happens in different ways, as an improviser, at different points along the journey. I would say like when I was first learning, like a super beginner, it was more about like so many choices and not knowing which one and what do I do? And what if it's – So, it's like all that internal dialogue with yourself about not wanting to make mistakes, “But mistakes are gifts” “But okay, well, there are mistakes everywhere. So, there are a lot of gifts to choose from. I don't what to do.”
You know, you have those moments, I think, when you're first learning, you'll have that, like, really amazing scene where you're kind of in the like (What do they call it?) like, you're very present or in the flow state or whatever. And it's awesome. And you're like, “Yes, that's the thing. That's the like the ideal; like the Holy Grail. This is how a scene should feel.”
So, like things after that. So, then you're kind of thinking a lot, after you have that kind of scene; whatever it is, like your next 50, 100 scenes that you're doing, whatever in class, practice group, whatever, wherever the fuck you're doing your stuff.
But like it's having a sense of like knowing what it feels like to be really present in a scene and to feel it working. And then all those other times being conscious of everything that's not working, I think, is what it is.
Lloydie: So, if we have defined what being in your head is, are there certain types of improv that make it more likely to happen? Here is Jessica.
Jessica: Yeah, I think anytime if you're invited to do like a narrative or a genre piece, anything where you're thinking of story structuring and you're thinking, “This has a firm beginning, middle and end”, it's almost a recipe for getting into your head and thinking, “What should I do?” or “What should I say?” or “What should this person have done?” or “What should this person have said?”
So, I think the real gift is working scene by scene and character by character and response by response rather than guessing in advance what's going to happen.
Lloydie: And Jay thinks there are certain forms that can mean we end up in our head sometimes
Jay: Hundred percent. And to be honest, each form you are in your head. Like you do short form, you're in your head; “We're going to do a scene. We're going to replay it in half the time.” “Okay, I want to make sure I hit beats in this scene, so when we come back, we have strong things to hit. Right?” “Okay, now we have to replay that scene. Shoot.” “What were the beats of that scene?”
So, short form has its elements of being in your head. I think as far as long form go, a style like the UCB game of the scene is very, very heady because also they're like writers who improvise. And a place like Second City or IO, they might be more improvisers who write as they go along. A place like UCB is definitely like, “No, no, here's the premise. Here's the game. Now, did you recognize the game? Heighten whatever that game is.”
And now, you're on stage with someone, you're like, “Are we seeing the same game?” You know, somebody says, “Oh, wow, these are the days of our lives” and I might think, “Okay, cool, the game is we're all doing soap opera titles.”
But somebody else might go, “These are the nights of our deaths.” Now, we're like, “Okay, shoot. The game has changed right now. Can I adapt and go with it?”
So, I think it's a personal thing, too. I think those who gravitate towards UCB and like to do that style, that's their style of humour. It's just been quantified. This is how we do it.
For me, so a place like Second City and a place like Comedy Sports where we did short form, I gravitate towards that because (a) they were like fun and that's what I wanted to do. And then the Second City was more about characters and relationships and that was easier for me. I was like, “Okay, cool. I can play a character and I don't have to think about, like, what they're going to say. I could just feel or embody them.” So, it made it easier for me.
Some people might be flipped. They go, “Oh, no. I have to think through my emotions. I'm not comfortable with that.”
So, it's really up to the person as to what they find gets them in their head, more or less.
Shari: Game of the scene where it's a bit more mathematical–
Lloydie: Shari Hazlett again.
Shari: –that's a little more checking of the boxes in a sense, at least definitely in the beginning. That, I think, definitely can put people in their heads. It doesn't necessarily do that for me. And maybe in the beginning. Maybe when I was first kind of playing with people who are more trained that way, I was like, “Oh, no, I'm doing something wrong.”
But yeah, it can. And I see other people do it. They get really stressed out. And again, I don't want to speak for anyone else. I just want to speak for myself. But like I definitely see people kind of stress out about not doing it right. And I think that sometimes that could happen. There's also the feeling of, “Am I doing this right?”
Lloydie: Am I doing this right? That sums up a lot of it for me. There's a real self-consciousness about the whole thing about getting up in your head. And Jay thinks that some things have only increased that over the past decade or so.
Jay: Well, I think there's a difference now with the influence of social media. And I wonder if people are more in their heads because now most of us want that instant gratification of a like or a comment or a retweet or a share or something like that. And we check our phones for that. It's like, “Did you like my comment? Did you share my post? Did you heart my post?”
I don't know if it's a generational thing; if we've just adapted and changed and now it's part of who we are. But I think it's always kind of been there. I really do. And I think back when I first started, all those years ago, I don't think we were as much in our heads because there wasn't as much of an audience to see it. Nobody was as familiar with improv. And so, you were doing it in front of friends and family and they were trying to understand how you were up there doing it. They didn't get it. They thought it was scripted; like they couldn't process you do that whole thing and you don't rehearse it, you don't practice it. So, for them, it's a matter of, “Wow, that's very brave.”
And I think as improvisers, when we're up in our head, we're not giving ourselves enough credit to be like, “Man, just standing on the stage in front of people or on this Zoom call; that's a pretty big deal.” But we don't do that enough because our brains want to protect us and our brain doesn't want to sit back and go, “Oh, this is great, you're doing fine.” Our brain is like, “What's the next thing to be concerned of?”
Lloydie: But if we're sometimes in our heads, we must be by definition, sometimes not in our heads. Here’s Jessica, again.
Jessica: I'm constantly – I was just talking to a friend of mine and I was asking them if (She's doing her Ph.D. in psychology). And I was asking if there are any links between improvisation and meditation, which I'm very interested in. Because I think that there is a link between the zone that you're in as an improviser performing and the zone that you're in as a meditator meditating; if that's the right language.
When you're just focused on what you're doing in that moment; whether it's breathing in or out or whether it's watching your partner and listening and responding. I think that that's the ultimate sign of being in or out of your head, watching and playing and building with your partner.
Lloydie: And Shari thinks that after a certain point in your own development, that becomes easier.
Shari: You hit a point where whatever it is, you already know it's sort of happening; it's like an app running in the background and you can just kind of feel free to – you're in the flow state, essentially.
But you can't live there forever, right? That's a great feeling. It's awesome and it's amazing to do that, but that's not something you can live in forever. You are going to go to your head as a way to check in with yourself.
So, being in your head, I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't think it's a good phrase, actually.
Lloydie: So, whether we're calling it being in your head or something else, how do Jay, Shari and Jess deal with it when it happens?
Jay: Oh, you quit. You just stop improvising. You leave.
Lloydie: You leave improv. It’s goodbye. It's over for you. Thanks for trying.
Jay: Well, yes, exactly. Good try.
I did have a teacher once who would kick people out of class and go, “This obviously isn't for you. Go get your check back.” And it was like, “Well, who makes you the determinant of improv?”
Lloydie: Wow.
Jay: Yeah.
And I'm not saying it was door close, but it was door close.
Lloydie: Ooh.
Jay: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a whole another conversation where it's like I mean you can also deliver information to people without being mean.
Lloydie: Yeah, right?
Jay: That's my thing.
And so, it's like, you know, talk to people with empathy. I learned from a guy I had very briefly named Martin Dammartin in Chicago at Second City, and he could deliver information in a way that you left, you didn't get something, you left the meeting with him and you were convinced it was a good thing that you didn't get it. He was an amazing guy.
But anyway, I think there's a couple of things. One is get out of your head. One is just accept you're going to be in your head. Like, try not to fight it and just be like, “I'm in my head right now. Let me refocus.”
Another is get into their head. So, get into your partner's head. Get out of your head. Get into their head. Get into your heart. You never go wrong like repeating what somebody said to you in a scene, but with an emotional take on it. So, how do you feel? Or get into their heart, affect them emotionally.
Those are ways I think you can get out of or at least be more comfortable accepting – That's the other thing, my friend. We don't want to accept what's happening a lot of times. So, we want to change. It’s like just accept. Play that scene you're in, accept you're in your head right now. It happens.
Don't try to fight it. Don't try to be like, “Gosh, I'm in my head again. Why does this always happen?” Well, you just are. Who cares? Who cares why? It's a human emotion and feeling and thought. It's human. Isn't it wonderful to be such a complex human being? Well, yes, you're going to be in your head. You're in this form.
Now, you didn't go into improv to get into your head. You didn't leave your first improv class saying, “Wow, I struggled. That was not fun at all. I'm coming back.”
But you go, “Okay, what I'm what is happening right now? Well, (a) maybe I'm learning and that's what the struggle is. (b) Oh, I'm having a terrible offstage life. I'm going through a lot of negative stuff in my own personal life. Of course, it's natural it will go onto stage. I'm anxious. I'm doing a show with somebody I respect. I'm doing a show with somebody I can't stand. All of those things come into play.
So, for me, before I go on stage, I need to warm up and get out of my week. And for sometimes it's like, “Oh, if it's a younger group, maybe it's a zip zap zup. But I want to play it like intense. I want to be intense. I want to get out of my week into the present. How can I be present right now?
For some, I just want to talk for some shows. I'm like, “Oh, I haven't seen you. I how you been?” Or even if I don't know them, it's like, “Hey, where are you from?” Like that's another way for me to warm up. But I want to warm up and warm up my body and warm up my energy to be open and ready to go on stage for whatever's happening. And if I find myself in my head, I tell myself it's okay. It happens. Everybody's in their head all the time. That's what we do. And then I try to refocus. And I might say, if I'm in a scene and I'm in my head, I might say to my partner, “Could you repeat that I was off somewhere?”
Or I might go to a thing that sometimes breaks my being in my head is object work. So, I might go to like playing darts or washing dishes or just fiddling with something in my hand. I don't know what it is at the moment, but I just keep my hands busy. Then my brain focuses on that. And that sometimes allows me to get out of my head.
But I might try to say something to my partner, like, “Here's what I think about you” or “I feel sad”; any of those “I feel” statements or “You make me feel…” if it's a positive thing. That always seems to help a little bit.
And then a final one is movement. Am I just standing still? Is it like watching the number eleven on stage with two people just straight up and down in the centre stage? Well, then I want to move. Any sort of movement will kind of trigger that. So, those are those are just a couple of simple things, but they've helped me a ton.
Shari: I like to give myself a thing to do or like a thing to focus on. Because then I'm not thinking about myself. So, usually for me when I'm like in my head in a show, it's I'm really focused on myself. For me, that's what that is, which means I'm not as focused on other things as I would like to be or I prefer to be.
So, if I make a point to just give myself one thing to do, even if it's stupid; like support your friends or whatever it is. Sometimes, I'll give myself a job, like initiate three times something or whatever it is.
So, something like that; just something else to focus on, I think, overall, throughout the show, kind of just sort of keeps me focused on things I prefer to be focused on.
Jessica: I always say when you're in your head to focus on the person that's across from you. To make eye contact; whether it's on screen or on stage and put everything you have into supporting and mirroring, if possible, the person that you find yourself on the screen with at the same time. Nothing gets you out of your head more than focusing on what someone else is doing with their body and voice and physicality.
Lloydie: I'm wondering if I'm there on stage and I'm focusing on the other person and they go {indistinct 17:50} focusing on them, “They've moved. They've moved. So, what do I do now? What do I do?”
Jessica: Well, move just let them. Do the exact same movements. Do the exact same voice. Do the exact same body. Finish their sentences rather than trying to one-up them. And rather than playing as an opposition to them, play with them.
I think that's so often people want to hear what someone says and then say the opposite or say something that's opposed to them or create a conflict. I don't think that we give enough credit to how much joy and fun and creation happens when you're just building with your partner; whether that's crossing the stage together or taking on the same character together or doing the same voice together and telling the same story together.
It really might be as simple as listening to where your scene partner left off, picking up and then taking the story the next couple of words and passing it back after your scene partner. There's nothing more dynamic. It looks like magic every single time.
Next time… on The Improv Chronicle Podcast.
The external influences on what we do. Is our improv enough in itself or do external factors like the space we play in or the audience we have influence what we do? And if so, how much influence do those external factors have?
The Improv Chronicle podcast is produced and hosted by me, Lloydie James Lloyd. There's now a newsletter to go with this podcast. It comes out on the weeks when we don't release an episode. Sign up and get the world of improv in your inbox when you go to improvchronicle.com