Two person shows have been a growing trend in improv and with the release of a three part Netflix special from improvisers Thomas Middleditch and Ben Schwartz, there is a now a mainstream spotlight on improvised duos. Despite theatres being closed right now, people around the world are talking about and forming opinions on what an improvised two person show can be. This is the second of two episodes looking at what is special about having just two people performing the whole show.

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This episode features:

David Pasquesi (TJ and Dave)
The TJ and Dave Vimeo series: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/tjanddave
The TJ and Dave book: https://books.google.com/books/about/Improvisation_at_the_Speed_of_Life.html?id=zyjWoQEACAAJ
You can follow him here on Twitter: @DPasquesi
And here on Insta: @DPasquesi

Scott Adsit and John Lutz
Scott and John did this incredible set at Just For Laughs festival in 2013. See the whole thing here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM10ZCu8Nu0 
Also, check out this hilarious clip of Scott Adsit and Christina Gausas in their two person show: https://ucbcomedy.com/media/4038 

Rachael Mason:
Check out this wonderful set from The Boys (Susan Messing and Rachael Mason) - https://youtu.be/FD0ZQf26Deg 

Louis Kornfeld and Rick Andrews
You can see Kornfeld and Andrews every Sunday night on the Magnet Theatres live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/themagnettheater/ 

Derek’s Mojo
Derek’s Mojo have a Facebook page with some pretty cool videos on them. Watch the videos and be sure to like the page too. https://www.facebook.com/dereksmojo/ 

The Improv Chronicle Podcast is produced and hosted by Nottingham improviser Lloydie James Lloyd
Theme music - Sam Plummer
Logo design - Hélène Dollie

Episode transcript:

This…. Is The Improv Chronicle Podcast…. I’m Lloydie

It’s Tuesday 2nd June 2020

During a global pandemic, improv has suddenly got mainstream exposure through a Netflix series. Middleditch and Schwartz’s three part special has got people talking about the art form and has got improvisers talking about duos. Last episode we explored why a duo is different to being in an ensemble show…

In the second of two episodes about two-person improv you hear improvisers getting to the heart of why they think being in a duo is so special for them and for audiences…  that’s after dealing with some of the mechanics of duo-work first - starting with Chicago improviser and Second City teacher, Rachael Mason.

Oh the biggest question I always get is how first is how do we edit? Second how do we multi-role and I think you like you said like, your group has to figure it out. Is that actually you're going to break out why are you going to break it out do you understand it has different uses? Like like I said TJ. and Dave will frequently use it like, to show off a breadth of character er to introduce new information um, like it's you know they don't do more than four scenes and they typically don't play more than two or three characters each. Me and Susan could play a hundred characters in one scene. 

So how do Chicago duo TJ and Dave approach having multiple characters in their show? David Pasquesi - 

We decided to play other people as they were needed not as a task that we had to have other people sometimes we don't um, or sometimes there's very few.  There's nothing that determines why we're playing others except for seemingly a need or that  oh, there would be a person there. If we have been in this space for this long someone else would be here. Again it's responding honestly to given everything that we've established up until this point. So how do you differentiate those characters in the audience's  mind and your own. Right well  I think one of the helpful bits is to give each one a certain mindset but also a certain physicality so that's easier for everyone to distinguish its just a shorthand so when this you know you see a person making a particular specific gesture oh, now that I know that that person that we saw before and the hard part, the easy part is the physicality the hard part is to try to think like these different people and that's not easy I mean if I'm the same person also and I start speaking about a certain thing a different way I might be the same guy I might be the new person so the physicality is the most helpful to to differentiate I think in a shorthand. 

And moving on to like how you like edit or transition into another scene. I know er newer improvisers going into a duo certainly seem to have that as one of the main conversations they have. How do you approach transitioning to a new scene? 

And again it's it's what seems to be needed or what seems to be organic. Sometimes to edit is to give yourself a a way out and that's not what we're after either. We're not attempting to make it the easiest on us. So sometimes if you're sitting in a difficult situation we'll just sit there and there won't be any talking. It'll just be a difficult situation and a lot of times maybe earlier on I would have been uncomfortable in that and looked forward to editing and getting out of that situation but um, we sometimes enjoy trying to work our way through seemingly impossible situations. 

Over to the UK and London duo Derek's Mojo. We met Monica when Jodyanne last week so how do they approach the technicalities of editing and multi-roleing? 

I would say with editing  we've got a a format  so we understand that we're moving on to the um, the the next part of the story or we're going on to different characters, but for us it's really just   um, a dynamic change or beat change and you realise oh, this is something else now and I think - I think we've always just thought it doesn't matter if   it takes a couple of seconds to pick up this is something different now because that's ok, that's  okay that it's not an instant, an instant thing. 

Yeah we very much feel when when as Monika says when there's a beat change, when this shift, and quite often times know  our stories don't don't end on the laugh or a big gag or big cathartic moment and sometimes we'll be telling  one of our little stories and the story will just end, it would just run out of steam or reach its natural conclusion, it can be a very soft landing sometimes and we move on to the next thing just just go on to the next rather than um, you know forcing the story till we get to that high point and then we can we can edit, and we just we just call it quits and move on to the next thing. Um, self editing is something that we're very good at I think. We just find a natural place and when we stop the story to talk to the audience when we kind of feel that we've reached a natural place ooh, there's an issue here, this is the point when we take to the and ask them  what they think yeah.  When it comes to playing different characters yeah it's definitely in physicality it's definitely erm vocals and it's definitely for want of a better word just fibe as well or just like, this person - we know this person is different because one, they change their physicality or/ and their vocals or/ and they've also  moved somewhere else on the stage, on the stage as well which is a nice way of being like oh, the person standing over there speaking like that is  is this character but when they stand over there that it's another character as well. 

I remember the very first time I formed a duo,  we worked on a super complex format we got really into it. As a duo we don't do that format  anymore and we feel all the better for it so I put the idea of how much formatic  requirement two person shows need to New York duo  Kornfeld and Andrews from the Magnet Theater. 

The first show I did regularly at Magnet  was a duo with  with a woman named  Jenny Dunn and I love playing with her and I think at our hearts we wanted to be doing what Louis and I are doing right now which is just being characters and letting it  feel more real but I think we were too afraid. Me, I'll speak for myself I was I felt like I had to be dressed up more and so we had this form which which was fun and like was cool by where we like we're repeating the same scene three times and like we were starting with the same line and then responding in a slightly  different way and it was like this kind of weird time travel thing and I I if I if I went back right now and got to play with her again and I think we would probably just do some scenes. You know what I mean? I'd just let what we liked about playing with each other be the thing that drives the structure whatever mmhm but I think yes it's easy to feel a lot of pressure like you gotta...  I think when you're, you know well, if you're not you know not feeling as confident an improviser then I think it feels like why why would people come see me like I have to kind of pitch it and I think that those are concerns, like I've got a kind of like, I got promote it to a crowd  and maybe to  people who don't watch improv, and like why would they come see this, so what would it be like? And I think those are questions that sometimes get wrapped up with like, what's our for or what's our structure? and and er at  the day  you know whatever you can do to deliver the best product to people, and to to have the best experience on stage for you all is I think what you want to start with. Those are valid questions too, you have to think about your presentation and you have to think about, I don't like to think of it in terms of like what am I selling people just because that language doesn't do anything for me, but but you do have to factor those those in. Those are important, those are important decisions on they're beyond financial decisions and they're beyond,  practical decisions, they are also important artistic decisions too. What kind of experience do I want people to be having with the show? 

So edits, formats, numbers of characters... they're technical. What's the magic of two person improv? What makes it truly special? Rachel Mason - 

I think, like, that the pas de deux, the duet,  like when two people come on stage to share the stage together, it's like, it's very special, right? Like the two people singing together in a musical, the two people on stage together in a play, like when we get to improvise and we get to use all of those tools,   I say that er, the pas de deux, right like, I mmhm anyway, when two people get to share stage space it is um, it's like it's automatically important. It's like there's already something going on, like it's electric, and then you like, you in the audience plugin and it's  I I can only explain like when I come off stage after Susan and I have performed, like before the shows we are always like "what's going to happen?" and after the shows we are always like "that fucking ruled" like that was so much fun what were we worried about? Oh right, we're together because we belong together and the audience is here to see us because they love to see us together and anytime two people are on stage together like, something can happen. 

In New York just before a show Scott Adsit and John Lutz reflected on what makes duos  special. 

It's easier to find just one person erm, I was lucky enough to be on a great improv team called the holler where we were cultivated and er, by Liz Allen who was our coach and teacher she molded us to be all on the same page and, we were, it took a lot of work to do and I feel like when you find like another person that you're really connected with it's easier improv. The same thing with like um, Four Square well  which I used to do, which is four people, it was easier because the four of us were all on the same page um, and that once you just find those connections then you just play and you don't have to think, about you don't have to over think moves at all because you know you're just gonna you've already connected with them. 

It might just be easier yeah for that for those reasons. 

Being easier is an advantage David Pasquesi acknowledges too. 

Well they're easier to er, schedule rehearsals. I'd say that is a not to be scoffed at, that is a valuable asset um... I just know... what is special about them? I suppose there's a well, as we were saying before, you're not always in it so if it with a larger group um, and so one,  one of the other things, you're not going to be, it's a double edged sword, you're not going to be interrupted which is nice but you're also not going to be saved by anyone which is added responsibility, and I think those are some of the elements that I like about it that I, well yeah nobody's, nobody's gonna come, nobody's coming there's no er, cavalry. 

Many improvisers start off on a team and then move on to being in a duo. So what advice to Derek's Mojo have for people toying with the idea of embarking on a show with the cast of two. 

Anybody who's thinking  "Ooh, should I to a two prov?" yes yes do it because  because sometimes I  I feel like some barriers for some people are the fact there's only two of us, what if we run out,     run out of things. You end your show. I'm sure your first two prov show's not going to be at Wembley  and they're going to sue you because  you were supposed to do two hours and you only did ten minutes. I would say, go,  go do it. Find someone that you really enjoy making improv with or think you might enjoy it, er making  improv with and give a go. It's not like buying a dog, you can let it go into the wild and then find another two- prov and find, find what your jam is. I feel like if you don't give a go especially  if you have the spark of like, "I think I want to do this thing" and you go on no because of X. Y and Z,  no go for it. Do it, do it, do it.  

Scott Adsit and John Lutz believe who you're on stage with is everything. 

It's just find the right person. Yeah I think it really is just finding, it is it's er, because I've done lots of two person shows and some people I've connected with more and some people I just did you just didn't click um there is a person Megan O'brien who I did a two person show with in um, Chicago where she was just,  the person I was supposed to do it didn't show up so I just picked her up I said  I..  I knew her and I was like let's let's play! And our first show was amazing and it just clicked for some reason and then we had a big run of shows that we did together. Um, and then there are people that I've known for a long time and rehearsed with and and all that and we just doesn't doesn't necessarily match up  and you can just you can feel that when you're on stage just find the right person. 

Yeah it's  playing as much as you can  as often as you can with as many different people as you can and then and then.. And when you find somebody you really enjoy  two person improv with you just do it is to it with them if you can't man that's that's basically it. 

Rachel Mason thinks one thing you could do before forming a duo is really invest in some specific skills. I actually think it would be like take like a Meisner  class or like, and like a real acting class I think that I think that duos are like unscripted acting. You have to be able to play different characters and you have to listen on a level that you don't, you have to listen differently than you do in group improv. So er, real acting can help or at least like I said like a Meisner,  repetitions, something that makes you focus on the other person.

When you take a look at the show notes from this episode you’ll see links to online shows and books from some of the participants you’ve heard. Whether it’s watching a show or buying a book or online series, it’s a really good time to support performers if you’re able.

Next time….. on the Improv Chronicle Podcast….

While improv has made huge efforts to get online in either Zoom or podcast form, musical improv has extra barriers to overcome with the technology. And yet, musical improv classes and podcasts are still running. How?

The improv chronicle podcast is produced and presented by me, Lloydie James Lloyd. Please subscribe and rate us on your favourite podcast app by going to ratethispodcast.com/improvchronicle If you have an idea for a possible episode  go to  - www.improvchronicle.com