Take Care Of Your Scene Partner
The phrase ‘take care of your scene partner’ is used so many times in improv but what do we really mean by it? What is it we need to do to make sure our scene partner is ‘taken care of’? This episode, you hear different perspectives on this common phrase from improvisers across the world.
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This episode features:
Daniel Pitts from Sheffield UK. He is connected to and would like to promote Little Chicago Comedy in Sheffield: https://www.facebook.com/LittleChicagoComedy
Varoon Anand worked with Anshuma Kshetrapal to help create a safe space where people could look after their scene partners at Kavalya Plays in Delhi, India: https://www.kaivalyaplays.org
Liam Webber is a performer and teacher in Nottingham. He performs and teaches across the UK and at international festivals. https://www.liamwebberimprov.co.uk - we perform improv in Nottingham together as The Clones
The Improv Chronicle Podcast is produced and hosted by Nottingham improviser Lloydie James Lloyd
Theme music - Sam Plummer
Logo design - Hélène Dollie
Episode Transcript:
This… is the Improv Chronicle podcast. I'm Lloydie.
Lloydie: Taking care of your scene partner. I've heard the phrase ‘Take care of your scene partner’ so many times in improv. But what do we really mean by it? What is it we need to do in order to make sure our partner is taken care of? And how does that impact the scene?
I started by talking to someone I met after doing one of my favourite shows with my duo partner, Liam Webber. We've done a show in Sheffield in the UK, and one of the people there that night was an improviser on a brilliant Sheffield team called Strüike, Daniel Pitts.
So, what does he think ‘Take care of your scene partner’ really means?
Daniel Pitts: Well, from my perspective, I think it's all about looking after your scene partner as a person. I think it's a lot more about the interpersonal relationship between two actors on the stage rather than the characters you're playing.
The main thing that I think is that you should shift a bit of your perception onto your scene partner and how they're doing and sort of ask yourself in your head that how are they handling the situation. And hopefully, it'll direct your perception away from whatever you're doing and onto them and maybe it'll help guide you with what you're doing.
But I don't think that's necessarily needs to be the main aim of it. I think it should just be an interpersonal gesture and a good, competent thing to do in a situation where a lot of meaningful and emotional topics can come up. I think the main thing you need to have in the part of your thinking is, ‘how is the other person I'm talking to you doing?’
Lloydie: How do we do that in a scene without kind of popping ourselves out of the character that we're in?
Daniel: That's true. I suppose… That's a really good question. I suppose it's unavoidable, maybe, that you do let the mask slip ever so slightly, but maybe it's more… If you’ve experienced enough, you sort of hope that whatever belief is guiding the character you're playing, it can be bent or shifted or adapted towards what you as a performer or what is going on with your scene partner.
So, I'd say you should try and accommodate, in a reasonable or kind or hopeful, thinking about your scene partner into the character you're playing. The character you're playing could be a complete bastard. But if they can express their bastardosity, if that’s a technical term. I will {indistinct 2:53} after this. And if they can tailor that to someone who maybe isn't comfortable talking about whatever your character is just brought up, then that's what you should try and do. You should try and then the bastardosity in such a way that accommodates your partner.
Lloydie: Just thinking: Have you got an example of a time when either you have or you noticed someone has looked after their scene partner on stage in a way that fits your definition?
Daniel: I can recall a specific situation that I had where I was the one who was uncomfortable. And what I just needed was my scene partner to understand that what was being brought up in the situation that was there was making me quite uncomfortable.
I hope that I've been able to pull off many situations like that. Like I don't want to sort of breach the semi-confidentiality of the rehearsal room.
Lloydie: Sure.
Daniel: But there's a few. And certainly, across the time I performed or done improv, there's been people who've sort of had anxiety-type issues, like general anxiety type sort of situations happening.
And I think that the main thing to realise is that if your partner is seizing up or they look like a deer in the headlights or they're just sort of not even responding on a flurry level, it's taking a moment to step back and think, “Okay, I'm going to send you away or my character is going to do a 180 based on something you've said that's more subtle and bring that back.”
It's, for me as a base level person, I think that the main thing about looking after your scene partner is looking after the person you’re looking at, if that makes sense.
Lloydie: As I explored this topic, I messaged people and put out calls on Facebook asking for opinions on what ‘Take care of your scene partner’ means. I had a lot of interesting replies.
Ian Hale is an improviser in Newcastle. He says,
“I tend towards that, give you a scene friends presence, i.e. give them things you think they would want to do or like doing. They like playing in a silent clown space? Let them do that for a bit. They like emotional rooted stuff? Give them a character development to chew on. They're a cleverness heck and like showing it? Give them an impossible riddle to solve in a scene. And cheer them on as they work out.”
Ian goes on to say,
“I've realized that directing improv and training dogs are very similar.”
I also heard from Pippa Evans from Showstopper: the improvised musical. She said this brilliantly succinct phrase;
“Create a space we are both free to play fully.”
I also got in touch with the theatre company in Delhi, India, which I knew had really explored this whole concept, and they even got an expert in to help.
Anshuma: So, my name is Anshuma Kshetrapal and I am a drama and movement therapist. And what that essentially means is that I use drama and theatre as healing modalities across populations.
I work in India. I teach in and design programs as well because I'm really passionate about this work and I want it to reach places.
Varoon Anand: And I'm Varoon Anand, Artistic Director of Kaivalya Plays; a Dehli-based theatre production company. Recently, we created a play called Unravel, which focuses on the therapeutic effects of improv games on certain aspects of mental health; which is depression and anxiety.
And I've worked with Anshuma in the past, who came in and essentially built our safe space practice through the play and furthermore through how we now operate as a theatre organization as well.
Lloydie: And knowing you'd done some of that was one of the reasons, Varoon, why I wanted to get in touch, because we talk a lot in improv about ‘Take care of your scene partner’. And it's a phrase, I think, that is kind of quite casually sometimes thrown around in the improv community. And I wondered, with all the work that you've been doing, what you understand that phrase to really mean.
Varoon: Yeah, it's one of those things that evolves with time, right? I think the very reason I enjoyed improv from the beginning was that it wasn't a competitive format of working. It really relied on people working together to build something. Otherwise, you're not going to get very far.
But over time, what I saw is that there's many aspects to it; especially when I came to Delhi. Because Delhi, it was much more of a breeding ground for stand-up comics. So, you had a lot of making fun of each other, pulling each other's legs in scenes.
And overtime, improv became and kind of a toxic thing because I was constantly trying to make audiences laugh with the team. And a lot of our scenes were about making fun of each other. And it just really felt wrong. And working over time, we were trying to grasp what it is that that means; that taking care of your partner.
And I have to admit that it was a situation we asked the question first; what does it mean? And then we tried to go about answering, what does it mean to take care of your partner?
And we went through what we thought the principles of improv were; the taking care of your partner means accepting the reality their state exists. Don't deny, don't block. Otherwise, you're not taking care of your scene partner.
But even with these things, it didn't feel that we were getting to it practically. We were struggling to listen to each other in scenes. We were nervous. And these things lead to problems when you're there.
As theatre actors, we have a tendency of putting it on the line for a show. You'll put yourself through great pain because it's worth it for the show; anything to make the show happen. And we realized that it wasn't sustainable.
So, that's when one of our performers recommended {indistinct 8:43}. And then {indistinct 8:43} came in and the very first thing she did is, “What's the show? Okay. So, you guys create a safe space. What is a safe space?” And we didn't have an answer to that. I guess this is where I would hand over to {indistinct 8:54} and say she can maybe explain better what it was that was going on.
Anshuma: First of all, I mean, kudos to the production itself. I think the intention of the production was absolutely stunning to me. The idea that this was happening, like Varun said, in India; in Delhi, in the theatre scene in Delhi, was unheard of.
For a theatre company to be so open to these wonderful conversations about consent, about power structures within the very fabric of creating theatre, a concentration which was not simply about the product or the aesthetics of the performance, but a concentration on the process of it and what's happening to each individual as they involve themselves in that process.
That was very unique and very, very interesting. I was very grateful to have come into this space. And I think I went in with these conversations of what is safety to be able… And I felt safe enough to be able to create those conversations there; to be able to have conversations. So, that's all kudos to the team.
Lloydie: Whilst I think a lot of people through convention have thought ‘Take care of your scene partner’ means in terms of their character and the choices that their character is making. But from what you saying, inevitably, we're going to have to take into account the human being performing that role as well.
Anshuma: Absolutely. And I'm also… You know, the word choice there. I mean, this is what was unique about Kaivalya. It wasn't simply about creating laughter or creating interest or intrigue. It was more about the individual making that choice in that moment and giving it time and space.
Lloydie: And as a result of this whole process, how would you now sum up what ‘Take care of your scene partner’ means?
Varoon: What ‘Take care of our scene partner’ means now, I mean, we'd say this when open space starts, which is every week, we have an open space. And one thing we pride ourselves on is that it's a safe space. And that was, again, a question {indistinct 11:00} asked, “What makes this space safe?”
So, we know when we come in, the first thing we do is… When we see you come in, we say, “Hey, we want to talk about this first. We're going to talk about safety.” So, we never assume your consent for anything. Once you've entered the space and you agreed to play some games, we haven't assumed you've consented to everything that's going to happen.
The second thing is, at any point, if you want to remove yourself, you can and you don't have to explain why; no one has to tell me anything. If I'm in a scene with you and you walk off, that's not a comment on me. It isn't something I did. It doesn't make me good or bad.
And thirdly, don't talk about anything about somebody else's personal. Don't mention religion, don't mention caste or mention anything that you think is real. If you're going to make fun of something, make fun of something that is removed from reality.
It doesn't mean things don't happen. We still have incidents that happen. But the difference is that what people know and what makes them comfortable is that they know they have a tool to turn to. They know they have rules in the space. And that what it does is it prevents something happening. You're not scared. So, you don't react in a way that’s scared that maybe worse. You actually feel comfortable enough to go, “Hey, okay, I'm going to go into these areas. I'm cool with this.”
And I think that's been the bigger difference; that actually when you know that safety has been talked about, that people tend to treat each other with that mindset. Your mindset becomes, “I'm really focused on the other person. It's them that I'm thinking about. It's not about me.” And because they're comfortable, they also feel responsible for that person's safety.
So, I mean, essentially, it's those three ideas condensed. But what it really is, is just the fact that someone started by saying, “We're going to talk about this and it's this simple and it's not difficult. You don't have to worry or be scared.”
Anshuma: Can I just add a little bit of what I saw changing from the outside, because I, after having these conversations with the team, I did go in to see performances and I did go in to see multiple performances. And I saw each one being different in texture from the other. And increasingly, there were dynamics, there were group dynamics, there were real relationships.
Often, I've seen in performative theatre, sometimes the idea that something is tough is when it's blasphemous or when it's when it's hard or it very outwardly hard. Whereas, what was happening for the team was that in these real conversations, in creating these rituals, it was harder to actually have these real conversations; to be personal, but not take things personally, like what Varun just said.
But they were doing it, and these tools and rules became very easily absorbed into the fabric of the performance because once everybody kind of figured that this is for us to create safety and it isn't for us to order each other or it's not something to follow, but it's ours and we get to create it. It's not boundaries established by someone outside. I think there's some amount of power sharing in that.
Lloydie: This is clearly a subject that people have really thought about. And there's no one way to approach ‘Take care of your partner’. In fact, next time I hear that phrase thrown around in a rehearsal room, I'm going to want to ask, “How do you define that?”
Other reactions I got from asking what people think it means include Ben Tucker, who said;
“Hold their hair while they're pretending to be sick, with permission.”
And also, from UCB teacher, Chelsea Clarke;
“If it looks like they're uncomfortable, thrown or stuck, take the wheel. If they look like they're trying to make something happen, get on board.”
Thinking about all of this, earlier today, I felt like I needed to speak to the person who I mentioned earlier, Liam Webber. We performed together as a duo called The Clones.
Liam Webber: I was holding a rose in my hands and I'd smell the rose.
Lloydie: When we're at best, it really is like telepathy. And I wondered how someone who looks after me so well on stage would define the phrase, ‘Look after your scene partner’.
Well, I would have done, but we spent about ten minutes pretending to do ASMR.
Liam: And I have the rose.
Lloydie: I have taken the hot tap and pumped it into the cold tap.
So, how do you define ‘Take care of your scene partner’?
Liam: Um, I think it's just about making sure the other person's having fun and having a good time. I think that's pretty much it. I feel like the having fun element kind of like encompasses the broader boundaries cart that has to happen and making sure that everyone's comfortable on stage. You know, you can't have fun if you're not comfortable.
So, I think there's that like, I think, if your scene partner or if the person on stage with you is having fun, then you're looking after them; they’re having a good time. And that's why we do this. We don't really do this for the huge financial reward at the end of it. We do it because it's fun to do.
Lloydie: How much of it do you think is giving them something; like in terms of offers, gifts, physicality that you're providing? And how much of it is you reading what they're doing?
Liam: Everything is a gift, right? Like, yeah, everything is active. So, it's like if I'm performing with someone, then it's all about like giving them either explicit things. So, like what we would normally characterize as an offer. It might be a character, it might just be a line of dialogue, it might be whatever the offer is. But I'm also giving them like my full attention and giving them all of my focus and all of my brain, when they're performing and like whatever they're doing. I'm giving them that as well.
And so, I think you're in a constant state of giving the other person something; either like you're giving them explicit ideas or you're just giving them your focus and you're giving them that space where they can be themselves and they can throw stuff out there.
And I think it's that there. Like, you give them your focus, you give them offers as well. And then between those two things, you kind of hope that they're having a good time.
Lloydie: I suppose the reason I ask is I'm very aware, when I'm on stage with you, that there are some times when you're going to, I suppose, drive it a little bit more and I'm going to be reacting and my reactions will then create something. And then there are some times when maybe I'm driving it a bit more and your reactions will then create something else. But I'm not necessarily always consciously thinking about that dynamic. I do kind of realize that it's there because sometimes someone will have an idea.
I suppose what I'm asking is how much of it is giving space to the other person and how much is it giving the other person a thing with which they can play?
Liam: Well, space is just another thing with which they can play. Like it’s the same thing. I don't know. I think you're right; there's always like a give and take. There's like a flux of a show. And when we're inspired, we create more freely.
And so, I like to think of like when we're improvising, we want to be in this state of constant inspiration. We're like everything the other person is saying is inspiring stuff in me.
And naturally, some stuff will spark more than others. And I think it's about like feeling that kind of energy between you. And when you see the inspiration spark in the other person, that's when you feel, “Okay, I'm going to give a bit of space where like…”
And then if you're performing with someone who loves you and wants you to do well and wants you to have fun on stage… Because that's the fun bit. Their sparking inspiration bit is like that's fun, right? That's there.
I guess that's what I mean when I say like, “I want the other person to have fun. I want them to feel that like spark of inspiration as they like don't have to think about what they're about to do. They just kind of do it.”
And so, I think like, yeah, playing with someone who when you spark, they'll be like, “Okay, I'm going to give you space and really enjoy this and really focus on this. And then maybe try and feed that where I can.”
And then the flip side is that your role is like when you see them spark, you've just got to love that and enjoy that moment that they're like on fire, that they're like, “Yeah, this is it.”
Lloydie: I suppose finally, given that we do look after each other, on the stage and off, to a degree, I am -- few years older than me. What I suppose I'm saying is, when I move into a nursing home, will you also still take care of me?
Liam: Yeah, of course. In fact, I'm most into this partnership for that moment actually. I don’t want to say anything, but I've been working slowly but surely towards being your soul benefactor in your will. And I think I think caring for you through retirement is a major part of that.
Lloydie: Of course. Why would an unmarried man in his 40s suddenly strike up an improv partnership with a man in his 20s, if it wasn't so that I could leave all my worldly improv fortunes to you?
Liam: Yeah, all that that one bookshelf full of improv books; I'm just after it for that copy of Jason Chen’s book.
Lloydie: Ah, that's a great one. And do you know what? It's a relatively short, but interesting read.
Liam: Exactly, right?
Lloydie: Yeah. Yeah.
Liam: Like improv and mindfulness.
Lloydie: It combines improv mindfulness and it's got some really interesting conclusions it comes to. So, if you want that Jason Chen book, believe me, when I pass away, like when I'm 102 and you're in your 80s.
Liam: Yeah.
Lloydie: You can suddenly become very mindful in your improv.
Liam: That's good. Yeah. I can't wait.
Lloydie: You're welcome.
Next time… on the Improv Chronicle podcast.
Object work: Is it just a necessary evil or is the creation and continuity of imaginary objects in a scene vital? What power does object work have when it comes to affecting us, our scene partners and our audiences?
Let me know your thoughts now by emailing them to newsdesk@improvchronicle.com.
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